Oct 28, 2018

Ethylene and Plants' Circadian Rhythm

6 comments

Article reference: https://phys.org/news/2017-10-chemical.html

 

So these scientists figured out in 2017 that besides sugar, ethylene is the other major regulator of plants' sleep cycle. Do any of y'all have a trash can near your grow, or perhaps some bananas in a kitchen near your grow? If so, you are speeding up your plants circadian rhythm and causing them to ripen faster! Might be good for certain cases, but for most of us who want out plants to keep bulking up as long as their genes will possibly allow, this is really bad! I actually sent these folk an email letting them know how the sugar blocks ethylene from speeding up plants' ripening phase. As long as the microbes are either being fed sugars by the plant or by you the grower, then they will create certain compounds which protect the plant from having a stress reaction to the ethylene and therefore continue to bulk up as they normally would. So if you are doing an apartment grow or home grow with any ripening foods near by (or any sources of ethylene) nearby, your plants are at risk of being stressed by the gases. Keep your microbes alive and active till the end of harvest and it will save your plants from experiencing this effect just discovered by these scientists.

Hey, Johnny. Thanks for the info and the link. That is an interesting website. "Link between what we see and how we remember 'breaks' as we get older" Something to look forward to, lol. Seriously, good bookmark.

Oct 29, 2018

Hmmm. Not so sure where to put my worm bin now. Maybe I should set them free in the outdoor beds rather then bring them inside for the winter.

Oct 30, 2018

@Local woh, tripped me up with that man. Interesting article. I am graduating with a psychology degree, so you better believe I love that type of stuff! Glad y'all are finding this useful, it's something I think about every time the gardeners cut the lawn outside my window/if I leave the trash for too long and wake up with a stinky house... Not proud of that last part but it happens. Saving plastic. Having just started adding molasses for the last 2 weeks of my plants' flowering cycle, I feel secure knowing the microbes from my teas will continue working and producing plant protection agents to prevent them from experiencing ethylene stress.

 

@Chef I don't think you have to worry either since you are growing with organics. My reasoning is that you use molasses all the time and also compost teas, keeping your microbes thriving. So, your plant growth promoting bacteria will produce ACC-deaminase which will lower the possibility of your plants being stressed, significantly so from what I can tell (pulling from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4227472/). The article says ACC-deaminase is an enzyme that degrades ACC (the precursor to ethylene, known as the amino acid methionine), preventing plants from experiencing stress from its later hormonal form, ethylene. ACC also has other complex roles. I think about this all the time in my organic gardening since there are constantly compost piles around. It's fine as long as you work with the microbes and keep a close eye on them, your plants will grow normally. I even have put a bunch of bananas in my compost teas for the second half of flower and my plants are still right on schedule. The teas reeked of ripe nanners, I'm sure plenty of ACC and ethylene was in my plants soils and the grow tent but they still are taking exactly 5 weeks exactly from that pistol swelling initiation you mentioned to be at peak trichome production (amber trichomes). I have a jeweler's loop coming in thanks to @Local's informative post. From what I can tell, they are right on schedule, but the jeweler's loupe will allow me to verify that. So, don't trust me, yet anyway I guess, but the ACC degradation by bacteria is scientifically verified and significant enough to assume its safe to have some ACC around your plants. However, now that I am thinking about it, I don't know if microbes protect plants from ethylene once it is already formed as this post mentions. So, might be a good idea to take that worm bin out of there if it is producing a pretty significant amount of ethylene gases, as I am not sure how much microbes protect plants from ethylene once it is already formed. Don't worm bins have a soil covering? I figure that would eliminate excessive gas production, but I donno, up to you. Our noses are very sensitive to sulfur, if you can't smell it I can't imagine it's a problem. This is now out of my realm of knowledge though now. You have to weigh the costs and benefits of if you want your plants to ripen faster or slower. I haven't researched the benefits of quickening the ripening process of plants really, I just know we want to prevent whatever ethylene does to plants' growth, which reduces root/shoot growth significantly. Again though, I haven't researched its benefits. I think biostimulants also speed up plants ripening process, so I'm not sure if a little ethylene is the worst thing. Ethylene is inevitable as a part of the plant's maturation process also. It is one concept of organic growing I will definitely continue to research and update y'all with if I run across anything else significant. I trust you will make the right decision with your worm bin Chef. Depending on what kind of worms you have there, they will die when snow hits outside. Earthworms certainly would not make it, since they dwell just beneath the surface. Perhaps you should free them in the indoor bed, they will definitely eat horse bedding (hay and shit), I can verify that readily lol.

Man, my memory is not what it used to be. I thought I gave another reply to this long ago. I ordered x20 triplet and x30 loupes. I have a difficult time seeing that much advantage over a x10 for field (portable) use. I hope you found something that you're happy with, Johnny. In my experience, it often takes a few tries to find just what I've been looking for. I just share my perspective here, and don't mean to promote any practice over any other.

Nov 12, 2018

Very nice, I ordered one from "Wesley's" on Amazon. They sent me 2 because the first one was faulty and had flickering lights and complained about it to em, but now the first one works for some reason so I have 2 working ones lol. Good customer service. It works really nicely as a product though, the light is definitely necessary for scoping buds well because you create a shadow if you lean over em which is kinda necessary when scoping live plants. It's got 30x and 60x magnifying glasses. Not getting paid to endorse it but thought I'd share, might go over to your post to share.

 

Thanks for the recommendation @Local. I think it's a good option compared to the other cheap microscope options like the USB one. I like that it's even more portable because of its smaller size too.

@JohnnyCakes Sounds good. I like the idea of sharing different experiences and preferences on the forum, so people can choose what meets their needs. I don't like the lights as much because they don't always work. And I'm still trying to see the big difference between 10x, 20x, 30x in the loupes I bought. Glad you found what you like.

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  • I created a social site that focuses on marijuana... Pot Swap Club, were people are able to trade marijuana and more. I created it last year, however I had some health problems and other issues and had to put the site on hold, but now i'm back in action. I just added forums and could use knowledgeable people , if interested, please watch the short video and visit the site... https://potswap.club/ To our success in life "What we tell ourselves, our brain believes"
  • Hi all. This is a message to Chef's family who I assume might have control over this website now. Please inform everyone of the status of the website. I would appreciate being able to come back and post, but perhaps it is time to share my research with another knowledge data base. I currently have my research saved from this website but would recommend everyone save any posts that are of particular interest to them as well in case the site is suddenly shut down.
  • Hi all. Below is a recipe for a homemade organic pro-mix taken from SF Gate. I know Chef has passed but I think this is still an excellent forum to gather on and spread research with. I do think someone should comment on if this web page will exist for long though as well just in case so this valuable research is not deleted! I have back ups just in case but I'll make a seperate post for that. Onto the pro-mix recipe: 1/3 peat moss 1/3 perlite 1/3 organic gardening soil 1/4 cup garden lime per gallon of mix I have tried it and it works. Be careful if you have hard water, you will need to add intermediate chelators (AKA L-Amino Acids) to chelate the calcium, magnesium, etc in your water to prevent transpiration issues etc general salt issues that occur with mixing hard water and this fairly sweet and calcium and magnesium rich soil mix. I recommend going easy on the dolomite lime in general and also go easy on the peat moss, peaty soil is known to compact. If you are gonna be moving plants in pots add more perlite than peat moss because this will help with transpiration issues that come from compaction when moving potted plants around. You'll notice how good this mix smells and works for plants! You'll get very fast growing plants because this mix is focused on high porosity for a very high rate of transpiration and therefore plant mass production! Also note that this mix only feeds plants for a couple weeks and then you will need to add some salts for the plant and soil health. Adding a bit of organic matter to the soil eventually will be a good idea as well to continue feeding your organic base in the soil. I personally have a food web with springtails being consumed by a certain antonymous fungi in my soil I try to keep going. The springtails don't leave the pot and the fungi and springtails provide a ton of nitrogen to the plant, potentially CO2 as well! This cycle has successfully infected all the pots in my house interestingly. Sources: SF Gate Guide for peat moss pH balancing: https://homeguides.sfgate.com/balance-ph-lime-peat-potting-33867.html Peat moss to perlite ratio (Also SF Gate): https://homeguides.sfgate.com/recommended-ratio-peat-moss-perlite-46321.html SF Gate's article on the disadvantages of soil-less media (similar to this growing medium (pro-mix) minus the organic gardening soil): https://homeguides.sfgate.com/disadvantages-soilless-mixes-92328.html SF Gate article on composition of potting soil (good place to start to understand potting soils which are often replaced by soil-less pro-mixes). Also ratios of stuff: https://homeguides.sfgate.com/composition-potting-soil-75052.html On the springtail and fungi note, that is harder to source. The certain springtail eating and red hued mushroom producing fungi comes from Host Defence's Myco-Blend all purpose microbial and biostimulant inoculant and I think the springtails followed me via transporting the same compost over a long period of time. On the transpiration topic: Dr. B.C. Wolverton's book "How to Grow Fresh Air" explains that there is an equation that dictates how much air a plant is filtering dependent upon how much mass the plant produces. This has a lot to do w/ the soil medium. High porosity soil makes for the fastest mass production in plants. PS. If you have your own high porosity pro-mix or something similar please post it here. Of particular interest are environmentally friendly mixes, which the above mentioned mix is not due to the unsustainable peat moss component. Coco coir can be used to replace it (and is more environmentally friendly) but then potassium salts should be added at some point although I am less experienced with that mix so I don't know how soon potassium would be essential. I imagine co co coir may cause issues w/ pH because it may not be super acidic and so dolomite lime may need to be adjusted to lesser quantity per gallon. Also this mix may have too much calcium and magnesium due to coco coir and dolomite lime having so much of these elements. Maybe it'd be fine though. A good pH, texture, and an organic base, and magical things can happen with any soil mix basically.
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